Kelli Russell Agodon was born and raised in Seattle and educated at the University of Washington. She is the author of two books of poems, Small Knots (Cherry Grove Collections) and Geography, winner of the 2003 Floating Bridge Press Chapbook Award. She is the recipient of two Artist Trust GAP grants, as well as two Pushcart Prize nominations. Her poems have appeared in journals such as the North American Review, Seattle Review, Calyx, Rattapallax, the print version of Poets Against the War edited by Sam Hamill and on NPR’s The Writer’s Almanac with Garrison Keillor. Kelli has been a featured poet on the ABC News website for National Poetry Month and awarded a Soapstone Writer’s Residency in Oregon. Currently, she is the Poetry Editor for Margin: Exploring Modern Magical Realism and lives in a small seaside community in Washington’s Kitsap County. Visit her website at: www.agodon.com.
(Jeannine Hall Gailey has written for many magazines on subjects diverse as robotics, scones, and video games. She has published poetry in The Seattle Review, The Beloit Poetry Journal, and Rattle, among other places, with two poems upcoming in Puerto del Sol and Pontoon. She is a reviewer for NewPages.com and an online editor for Raven Chronicles.)
Kelli, your chapbook Geography, which came out last year from Floating Bridge Press, is one of their best-selling books. Congratulations! What do you think it is about that collection that speaks to so many people?
Thanks, Jeannine. I think so many of us have been through or known someone who has struggled with a particular illness. In the case of Geography, the disease is breast cancer and perhaps people relate to it because it is so prevalent in America; it seems we all know someone who has had breast cancer. Women have a 1 in 8 chance of developing breast cancer during their lifetimes, so I’m sure many readers were thinking of a friend, a mother, a sister while reading this chapbook.
On a more direct level though, I believe Geography offers hope and shows how when we are visiting difficult places in our lives, it is not all sadness or struggle, but a mix of pain and humor, anger and worry, frustration, and to a certain point, acceptance. I wanted Geography to explore the way we cope as people.
Your new book, Small Knots (Cherry Grove Press), deals with losses we can face, the things that slow us down, in different guises – the loss of a father, the loss of love, the loss of health. Tell me about the development of that book.
The book originally started out to be what Geography became, a book about one woman’s experience with breast cancer. But the more I wrote, the more I realized that I couldn’t condense a life to only a disease because there was so much more I wanted to explore as a poet and as a woman. I wanted the book to have a greater complexity to it.
The subjects I wanted to write about and add to the collection also reflected many of the same themes I had written about in Geography, the idea of loss and the events that happen in our life that slow us down, make us pause and consider the philosophical questions, the basic “why am I here?”
When I began to explore the other ideas on my mind, I saw them falling into three categories: generations, love and illness. Those became the three sections of the book and from there, it was just a matter of choosing the best poems to tell the story I wanted to tell.
How did you decide which poems to include and which to leave out?
I kept poems I felt were the strongest and added to the narrative thread of each section. The first section, “Tangle,” I wanted to focus on generations, both in our histories and stories, as well as having a daughter and losing a father. The second section “Interweave,” focuses on love and relationships. I wanted to show younger love and also consider the idea of retirement and growing old together. The last section “Stitch,” is the diagnosis of breast cancer and the story of living with the disease.
Once I understood my sections, then it just came to be a matter of choosing the best poems to complete the stories.
Did you write poems that tied the collection together, or was the close coherence of theme in the work more of a happy accident?
It was a little of both. The last section with the poems about breast cancer, I needed to make sure I had a complete story. In an earlier draft, a poet friend of mine told me I couldn’t leave out chemo in the chapbook, so I made a point to write a chemo poem.
If you notice, most of the poems are about tests for breast cancer: mammogram, ultrasound, and biopsy. Or there are poems about the fear of having breast cancer. These were the events I went through when the doctors thought I may have had breast cancer.
The poems about having breast cancer are my persona poems where I continued to write in first person even though I hadn’t experienced it firsthand. It was a difficult decision to make, but strangely, in the first poem I wrote about breast cancer, the speaker had just had a mastectomy. After writing that poem, I realized I needed to write the poems that led her to that place. Having just gone through an incredible amount of tests for breast cancer, my experience ended up being her story.
In the other sections, a lot of it was happy accident. I think many writers end up with themes or connections through their poems without even realizing it.
Did you take out any poems that you especially liked because they didn't fit thematically?
Yes, there were a lot of favorite poems that I didn’t use. Mostly in the first two sections, I had to make choices on which poems helped the reader move forward and gain a better understanding of the book/narrative as a whole, and which poems took the reader out of the story or sent them in other directions.
I actually have two other manuscripts in process because for me, theme, coherence and a larger vision for a book is very important. I wish I could just pack all my favorite poems in a book and say, “Here you go!” But my mind doesn’t work that way. I think at heart, I’m a storyteller and so I’m constantly trying to weave a narrative thread through my work.
The positive of all this is that I have some great poems ready for my second collection.
In several poems in Small Knots, you make references to Catholic iconography, saints, and other religious emblems. How has the Catholic tradition influenced your writing, if at all?
The Catholic religion and religion in general has greatly influenced my writing. I don’t consider myself a religious person, but a spiritual one. I grew up in home with a French-Catholic mother and an Atheist father. The Catholic history from my mother’s side decorated the home in subtle ways: rosaries on the dressers or hanging from the wall, a mother-of-pearl crucifix over the guest bed, chaplets in jewelry boxes, saint medallions in tins around the house. And though I wasn’t brought up in the full Catholic tradition but in a mix of Catholicism, Christianity and liberal doses of other religions, I was always drawn to deeper Catholic history and the tradition of it.
I loved the stories my mother told me about the nuns. Her stories were so rich with detail and something I hadn’t experienced. We didn’t attend church except for the occasional Midnight Mass on Christmas, so I would attend church with my friends’ families. I’m not sure if I thought I was missing something, but I knew spirituality was something I wanted to explore and I still do in my own writing.
I guess Catholicism has always been part of the backdrop of my life. When I learned to drive, the first thing my mum did was attach a huge Saint Christopher magnet to the ashtray of my Mustang. To this day, I don’t fly without my Mary pendant or my Saint Christopher medallion (despite his de-sainting years back). It seems it will always be an influence on my life and it’s definitely something I’m interested in learning more about and I’m sure it will continue to appear in my writing.
You also make several references to Neruda in your poems. Who are some of the other writers that you feel have inspired you and how have they influenced your work?
Many of what I consider the “Northwest writers” have had a strong influence on my work, Richard Hugo, in making me rethink my sentences and deleting words like “but” and “then.” I always remember his suggestion that the reader will put two ideas together without us holding his or her hand. William Stafford, in the simplicity of language, and using words not to show our own intelligence or appear perhaps wiser than we actually are, but to convey an idea to another. Also, I’m influenced by Stafford’s dedication to peace as well as writing political poems.
I was definitely influenced by Sylvia Plath’s wordplay, creating words and images like “moth-breath” “wedding-cake face.” I like the noun-noun combos in her poems very much. I’m influenced by [Edna St. Vincent] Millay, less by her individual poems, more in the way she chose to live her life as a poet. Her confidence, her activism─she was ahead of her times in what she was writing.
More recent poets I’ve been influenced by are Li-Young Lee, for the spiritual aspects that layer his poems, Olena Kalytiak Davis for her edginess (of which I have none), Naomi Shihab Nye for how to tell a story and write with a larger vision, Aimee Nezhukumatathil for her playfulness, Martha Silano for her incredible use of language, Susan Rich for her strong narrative poems, and Bob Hicok for being able to go from image to image and somehow make it all work out.
Do you have any poetry mentors, or people you work with on your poetry? How does that impact your work?
My first poetry mentor in college was Linda Bierds at the University of Washington. She was incredibly supportive to me as a poet and many of things I learned from her twelve years ago, I still return to today. In the mid-nineties, I met another poet named Paula Gardiner, who was the person I turned to for support when I left my 60-hour-a-week corporate America life to move to a small rural village and focus on my writing.
Currently, I have a couple of writing groups I turn to when I need feedback on poems, as well as a few other poets I can email poems to if I need to work through something. These groups impact my work by making me want to improve and not be satisfied with what I’ve written. I’m a perfectionist myself and I revise poems extensively, but the feedback from others helps me understand what isn’t coming across in the poem and where I may be losing people.
When did you start writing poetry? Why?
I think it was William Stafford who answered that question with: It’s not when did I become a poet, it’s when did everyone else stop being one.
Hmm, when did I start writing poetry? Or maybe the question should be, when did I start writing good poetry? If we want to return to the earliest memory, I actually started writing poetry in elementary school. For some reason, most of my teachers were interested in creative writing, or maybe I was, so I assumed they were as well. I wrote a poem called “Love is” and my mum framed it on her wall. Good enough for me! I think I was ten when I wrote my first book of poems that I actually made into a book, and wisely titled, “Kelli’s Book of Poems.” (I still have trouble with titles.)
It wasn’t until college, Linda Bierd’s class exactly, when I really realized that this is what I loved to do. I was an English major, but I was being wooed by fiction and short stories. I loved my poetry lit classes, but never really considered myself a poet. When I took Linda’s class, I was taken with this challenge of what you could achieve in such a small space. Since then, I’ve just forgotten to stop writing poetry.
What is your philosophy of writing?
I’m not sure I have one. I think we are all writers of some sort. Everyone has their own unique, individual story; I guess the key is to know which parts to tell.
It’s similar to the Stafford quote and to what Picasso said “Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up." I think we’re all creative beings, the challenge is to keep that, whether it is writing, painting, dancing. We need to keep that creativity in a prioritized place in our lives.
I know you have attended residencies, including Soapstone, a residency for women. How do you feel like that time impacted your work? Do you think it is essential for women writers to have time away from their families?
Absolutely. I think it’s important for writers and artists in general to have solitude, time strictly for themselves and their art. I think women, mothers in particular, have a harder time of taking or finding that time for themselves.
For so many years, women were asked to put their goals and passions to the side so they had enough energy and time to take care of whatever else needed tending. The problem with that attitude is that you can’t care for others if you aren’t taking care of yourself and it’s an easy to way to bring feelings of resentment into your situation. I definitely don’t believe people with families (male or female) can take off for a year and disregard the family part of their life, but there needs to be a balance. It’s a mix supporting the people you love by caring for them as a mother, wife, friend, or daughter, but also making sure you are being supported by them in that you’re allowed the time you need to create.
Balance is the key. For me, Soapstone allowed me a chance to intensely focus on my collection. Don’t get me wrong, it was incredibly hard to leave my family for a week and I had a lot of guilt about leaving my young daughter with my husband while I drove to Oregon to be alone. But the time there was so important to me, I probably wouldn’t have finished Small Knots or learned so much about myself had I not gone. And through the experience, we all gained confidence; my husband in knowing he could take care of my daughter without my help, my daughter in knowing that her father could give her the care she needed and that I would return to her, and I gained confidence in my writing and knowing that what I do is important. And when I returned, I was greeted with the best welcome home hug. By the next day, things were back to their regular routine, as if I hadn’t gone.
You keep a blog on your web site. Do you feel like the internet helps readers stay connected to their favorite writers? Can the net be a positive place for poets and poetry lovers? Do you have any favorite writing internet sites?
I think the internet definitely keeps us better connected to our favorite writers, especially poets and writers who keep a homepage with their reading schedule, blog or new projects. For me, I love to read other poets’ blogs because it reminds me that we are all going through the same things—rejection, self-doubt, and insecurity, mixed in with some success, acceptances, and joy.
I forget many times when I’m writing on my blog that others are reading it. I do a lot of it as a sort of free-write meditation, high-tech journaling, I guess. It’s nice when people comment or email me about something I’ve written. It’s also been good for me to return to earlier times in the blog to see where I’ve been, either good or bad, as it reminds me that things pass and that it’s not always about rejections or acceptances, just a lot of everything in between. And a few of these blog entries have gone on to be poems or parts of poems.
I think the net is a positive place for poets and poetry lovers because there is an enormous amount of well-written poems out there to consider. I think the Internet allows readers and writers to step away from their region and see a much greater variety of poetry. It takes away “regional writing” because we have so many poems from so many places at our fingertips. The diversity of writing is incredible.
My favorite internet site and homepage is Poetry Daily. I have learned about so many incredible poets and found so many wonderful books from their Poem of the Day. I also appreciate their News and list of New Poetry Collections. I think it’s the best poetry site on the web.
Other favorite websites are The Alsop Review for workshopping a poem and meeting other poets, The Plagiarist for having such a wealth of poetry to search through, Jeff Bahr’s site for statistical info on journal response times, Best American Poetry and rankings and New Pages for reviews on books, literary journals and links.
What is the balance in your work between inspiration and craft? What is
your revision process like?
I’m not really someone who writes when they’re inspired. If I waited for inspiration, I’d probably have two poems a year. I’m usually inspired by reading other poets, so if I need a jumpstart to my writing, I’ll grab a favorite book of poems and read a few and see if anything comes from it.
Mostly, my work begins with me sitting down and starting a poem to see if it goes anywhere. I have a huge number of poems in my “In Process” file that will never see the light of day. But I keep them and occasionally I’ll go through that file and something will get my attention and I’ll start the revision process. Sometimes it works, sometimes not and it returns back to the file until another day.
I am always revising. When I can’t write, I open four or five poems on my computer and begin revising them. Sometimes something great comes out of it, sometimes not. I always sort my “In Process” poems by date and I pull up the newest poems first to work on. After awhile I’ll look further back in the file and find some older poems, which is always fun, especially if I don’t remember working on them. Then it’s as if I’m revising someone else’s poem, which seems easier for some reason.
I think the distance in time does a lot when I’m revising. A poet I know always says, “We love our newest poems most,” and it reminds me of how a baby can do no wrong. I’ll look at the poem a few months down the road and I’ll start to see its weak points, where the reader could get lost. When a poem is new and so close to us, we just see its beauty and freshness, and it can take awhile to see its flaws.
I guess that’s another reason for workshops or critique groups. I take some poems there, though some poems never go. But it’s a good way to see how others are receiving your poems. I use workshops less for the details (though they are always helpful), but more to understand what ideas I’m conveying to the readers and what story they are getting from the poem.
What advice would you give to younger writers who are just trying to break in?
The best advice I can give, which was given to me as an undergrad from my professor David Wagoner, is to “read, read read.” At the time he gave it to me I thought it was terrible advice, but I’ve learned there is nothing that makes you a better poet than reading a huge amount and large variety of poems.
Read as much poetry as you can, old and new. Buy books of poems and subscribe to literary journals. Learn from the poets that are alive today. Learn what works and what doesn’t from their poems. The more you read, the more you will discover your own voice and what you have to say. Read as much poetry as you can, then write.
The other advice I’d give to young writers trying to break in is “Don’t fret rejections.” We all get them. They aren’t the best thing in the world, but they aren’t a reason to quit writing or submitting either. If you feel poetry is your path and you need to write, keep going despite the rejections and continue to work to get better.
Also, start submitting to local and regional literary journals first. Community colleges have great journals, and if you’re accepted, a lot of times you get to participate in a reading. They are a great place to break into publishing. As you gain a few credits, continue submitting but start to choose more competitive journals. And always be as professional as you can when submitting, clean, easy to read copies, clear cover letter, things like that.
I think writers’ conferences and poetry festivals are wonderful and fun places to learn and improve. They are also a great place to meet other poets, hear what’s being written today and discover new poets. I always appreciate hearing the “behind the scenes” stories that poets tell. These are the people future generations will be studying; we have the opportunity to hear and support them now, which I think is wonderful.
What are your plans for the future? Are you working on any writing
projects right now?
I have two poetry manuscripts in process right now. Though more and more, I believe they are one collection and for some reason, I’ve micromanaged them, kept the poems too closely connected by theme and haven’t allowed them to expand by mixing them up a bit, experimenting with different orders.
But having just published Small Knots, I’m trying to take a break from the process of organizing a manuscript and just focus on writing poems. Of course, the manuscripts will always be on my mind, but I’m going to focus more on individual poems than a full collection. I’m giving myself a year off just to enjoy Small Knots, readings, teaching some classes, participating in poetry festivals and writing. I’ll probably start looking for a publisher for book two next summer or fall.
Mostly, I’m just writing, nothing special, nothing particular. Just enjoying the time I have to work on poems, reading some new poets and seeing what comes about.
Click here to read Kelli's poems in the current issue of Rock Salt Plum!
